The Chairman of the Coordinating Council of Russian Compatriot Organizations in Romania, Fedor Afanasov, explains who the Russian Lipovans in Romania are and what is happening today with culture in the West and in Russia. Interview by Ekaterina Shekhotsova. "Fedor Fyodorovich, it is a pleasure to meet you here at the compatriots’ conference. Could you tell us who the Lipovans are and where the name comes from?" "You know, for us, it’s still a matter of debate why we’re called Lipovans. We mostly use this name for Russian Old Believers. We’re Russian, we follow Orthodox faith, which has been preserved since the baptism of Holy Russia and has endured since the 17th-century schism. Lipovan is a regional name, and there are different theories about its origin. Some say that Lipovans came from the forests where our Old Believers lived, from the 'lipa' (linden trees). Our grandfathers might have said of themselves, 'We live where the lindens are,' and the Romanians roughly interpreted that where there are linden trees, there are Lipovans. Another theory involves icons. In our language, icons are written, not painted (one draws a picture, but writes an icon). For example, a woman can be beautiful, while an icon is glorious. Lipovans might have shown an icon, saying it was written on linden wood. But there’s also a third theory related to where I was born. My village’s old name is Sakalintsa, but in the official documents of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, our village is listed as Lipovin. Our village is old—next year, in 2024, we’ll be celebrating 300 years since its founding. I really hope that guests from Russia will come to see where the first settlement of Old Believers was located. And maybe that’s where the name 'Lipovans' came from. So, in Romanian society, a unique mentality formed. And right away, if you say 'Lipovans,' everyone knows who we are. But there’s another version as well. I’ll never forget Grandfather Antony, God rest his soul. He was a former military man, an officer. When some Russians came to ask him, ‘Are you an Old Believer or a Lipovan?’, he took a cane and almost hit the reporter, saying, ‘Don’t insult me—I’m a Russian Old Believer, not a Lipovan.’ Instead of calling us ‘dogs,’ they shouted ‘Lipovans.’ There’s a story that ‘Lipovans’ was a nickname, and not a very good one at that. Our elders took on this nickname, even though they rejected it at first. But later, with the revolution, a reorganization of the state happened, and every minority was allowed to create its own organization. Then the founders of our community gathered and said, 'Let's create our Russian community.' Various names were proposed: 'Old Believers Community,' 'Lipovans Community,' 'Russian Lipovans Community,' 'Russian Romanians Community.' No one knew what to call this organization. In the end, they decided on the 'Russian Lipovans Community.' Because even then, there was a certain degree of Russophobia, and to avoid issues, our representatives in parliament created a name—'Russian Lipovans.' In short, that's the story. And that’s why today, everyone officially knows us as Russian Lipovans, because there’s an official, state-recognized organization called 'The Community of Russian Lipovans in Romania.' This is a fascinating experience, because today’s conflict also arises from the fact that Russians are becoming unable to consolidate, to obtain their own subjectivity, their own recognition. Lipovans are an entire phenomenon that demonstrates how, in challenging conditions, where there is an unfriendly environment, Russians can exist, united under such a concept. It’s amazing how this happens." "I'll tell you a secret. The secret doesn’t lie in the community organization. I’d even say that… I may offend someone, but I believe the community organization divides more than it unites. The 'Community of Russian Lipovans in Romania' unites a few hundred, but we are tens of thousands. The true link that unites us, what has kept our spirit for centuries, is the church. In Romania and throughout the world, as the center of Old Belief is precisely in Romania, the Old Believer Church Metropolitanate of Moscow was created in Romania. They even received a blessing from there to create an Old Believer metropolitanate in Moscow. The church is what gives us spirit. There, the services are in Old Church Slavonic, and you could say, everything there is Russian. It’s not the social fabric that unites us, nor the socio-public sphere, but rather something more spiritual, right?" "Faith. Faith in God, who is shining upon us." Faith can be a kind of shield, against which nothing can stand, as it has the power to unite and protect. "The public figures and many others in society think we can do a lot with our own strength. I can tell from experience that without God, there is nothing. There’s hope in God’s help. Everyone has their own path. I’m involved in business and other organizations. But I can tell you, everywhere things happen with God’s help. People are more united around the church. There, so to speak, no one has personal interests. The church is an organization that has no particular interests. This has preserved us and continues to support our community, helping our children remain Russian within the church." "Wonderful. In essence, many Russians, after 1917, preserved their families, continued passing down their culture through faith, even while living in other countries. You live in Europe and see what’s happening now with the so-called cancel culture. Culture can be immaterial, material, and spiritual—these concepts exist in Russian. From where you live, how do you see these processes in relation to Russian culture?" "You know, we have been living in this European environment for over three hundred years. We can say we’re Russian, we have always been Russian. Even now, when this crisis arose, our people hold up Russian flags. Even now, while the military operation is ongoing, at our performances, concerts (you can check online), our children wear traditional costumes. It all depends on the policy we carry. It all depends on how we are able to convey something and how we shape our image. Because, naturally, we stay out of politics, but, unfortunately, all this Russophobia that exists puts pressure on us as well. Certain people may accuse you of something and say things to you." "Are they not afraid to approach you and accuse you? Are they not intimidated?" "No, they can… Don’t be fooled by the fact that the bears are big. Among our compatriots, there are Russians, and they are Old Believers. There are also some in Ukraine, everywhere. We must somehow stand together, find ways to help each other. Everything depends on our willingness and what we can pass on. Russophobia, unfortunately, isn’t a new phenomenon. Looking back at the entire history of Holy Russia, we’ve always been envied. Look from the beginning: the Byzantine Empire envied our people, envied Vladimir, envied our tsars, envied the Rurikids and the Romanovs. But I think about why we constantly need to prove something to someone. Look at Peter the Great… He was a great figure, but he himself renounced everything Russian. Think about it, he loved German clothing, built St. Petersburg in the German style, rejecting what was Russian. A new TV series has just come out, not to promote it, called The Cathedral. Look where he told his marshal to build a church—in some swamp, in Russian style." "An interesting figure—this year marks 300 years since Peter. I, too, am not a historian, but I see these strange tendencies of rejecting what is Russian. It’s amazing how, in Russia, some of the greatest achievements, geopolitical moves, diplomatic efforts coexist with such an attitude toward its own roots and cultural elements. You see this as well, don’t you?" "Yes, even in Romania, I say, ‘Guys, why do you reject what you have?’ I understand that times have passed, but if, in the end, we are meant to suffer—let us suffer; it’s inevitable. But why be a traitor to what you are? Why are we forced to prove to someone that we can be like them? Why shouldn’t they be like us? Why don’t they have to accept us as we are, just as we accept them? Europe has the Spanish, who are proud of Spanish culture, the French have theirs, the Italians have theirs, but are we Russians not allowed to have our own? You know, it’s an unfortunate trend that everyone wants to negotiate with us on terms that suit them. If it benefits us, we’re ready to be with you—if you follow our conditions. But why should we always be ready to fulfill someone else’s terms?" "But Russians are fearless; where does this fear and hesitation to be oneself come from, in your opinion?" "I think the first thing we ourselves need to do is fight against the refusal to be Russian. We must show everywhere that we are proud of our identity, our culture; the youth must understand this. I’m not ashamed that I’m Russian. Yes, I see what people write about me, sometimes nasty things and all that, but I don’t turn away from who I am." "Your T-shirt says, 'Where we are, there is Russia.' Do you wear it somewhere?" "You know, we wear it everywhere; you can see it on social media. Especially our guys—they’re so cool, on motorcycles, participating even now. Here’s the Romanian flag, here’s the Russian flag, here’s the St. George ribbon, and here’s ‘where we are, there is Russia.’ But it’s not like we’re occupying anything. Where is Russia? It’s in our souls. We’ve lived outside of Russia for three hundred years. We didn’t take a piece of Russia and move it here. But we have the spirit. Russia is more than a country. I always say this. Many who don’t understand our spirit find it difficult to grasp that we think of Russia not as some physical boundary but as a state of spirit. And, as Protopope Avvakum, our saint, said, ‘Wherever you go, Holy Russia will be there.’ Just as God is with us, and as the Lord also says, ‘Where you speak of me, there I will be.’ So is Russia. If we think of her, she will be there. Come to our village, and you’ll ask, ‘Are we in Romania or in Russia?’ And no one bothers us. There are signs in Russian, in Romanian. ‘House of Culture’ and more, our bearded grandfathers are here, you can hear Russian songs and all that, and hear them swear in our own way. When I first flew to Russia, they asked me, ‘Fedor, how does it feel?’ Like home! Some may wander off, some swear, some look, someone starts singing." "So, the reason why Russian civilization will survive lies not in external factors?" "It’s not external, and Russia without faith is not Russia. We see a trend in the West of moving away from God, away from Orthodox, or you could say spiritual, morals. Even the father becomes the mother, the mother becomes the father, and the father becomes both mother and father—all these modern trends are, of course, not pleasing to God. They’re just trying to reshape the very nature of things. And we see for ourselves what happens when you play with nature. Let’s stop the river and build a good dam and see what happens. Let’s take trees from the mountains where houses are built and see how long it takes before those houses fall along with the mountain. Whatever we do, nature is nature. We will die, our home will be overgrown with trees, and our being will merge with nature. So, too, is the human being; we shouldn’t choose to tamper with it. Even more troubling is the battle against childhood. In Europe, there’s an effort to rob children of their childhood and attempt to make them adults. Not letting them enjoy the things they should. Why must we teach children things they will discover when they grow up? Let the child be a child, let him have the opportunity to see the world as beautiful through his own eyes. But they’re doing the opposite." "All the people who create books for children's education don’t have children of their own. If they would look at a child—such a little angel, when he wakes up, when he cries—they’d understand that children need simple things, to be loved. And the society they live in should care for them, so that the father is nearby, so that the mother is there. Let’s help parents so that their children become educated, and later their children will also be educated. We’re focused on teaching children, excuse me, to do things they will only do as adults. It’s supposedly for their safety, but you know, there are too many twisted people among minors now. Education is needed for the parent, not for the child who is now five or six years old and is just beginning to be taught." "I’ll ask you, as an Old Believer, a rather difficult question. Russia is a multi-ethnic country, with the majority being ethnic Russians, but there are other peoples too. I spoke with the well-known compatriot Aleksandr Aleksandrovich Trubetskoy from France at a similar conference. As an Orthodox person from Europe, where he has lived his entire life, he says that he sees Russia today as closer to the East, as they together oppose the West in terms of their spirituality and attitudes toward family. Even if the religions are different, Russia today knows how to unite hundreds of peoples into one great country, to create a civilization. Our brothers of other ethnicities and religions probably also contribute to preserving those traditional values that you say are lacking in Europe. Do you also see it this way?" "It’s not just that there’s a lack of it in Europe. There is spirituality here as well. There are also people who love God here, regardless of religion, but we’re talking about the elites. There’s an elite, and it should be on the side of God, on the side of spiritual values. But the Western elite has created its own religion—'New Age, new religion,' with the satanic church and scientology. They already have their own image. And I ask about the billionaires. Look at our billionaires—you might still see them in church, they’ll go, cross themselves, go for a blessing, even build a temple. Take, for example, Elon Musk. We’ve seen which god he himself worships. What did he have on his chest? It was Satan. There’s a photo on the internet. What cross was on his legs? A cross with the head down. What does this mean? It means that we’re in the way of spreading their religion. And their religion is the destruction of the soul. Many people, even when talking with friends, think it’s a myth that God and the devil exist. Friends, it’s not a myth. God and the devil reveal themselves differently. Depending on the generation, they appear differently. And now, he, the devil, is beginning to reveal himself fully. Why? Because he probably already has enough followers. And who are these followers? The highest elite of the world. Look at which churches the billionaires go to, which secret organizations they belong to, which churches they donate to. How many of the highest Western elites have you seen wearing any cross? But look at our elite, you’ll see that many do; some wear one. Not that salvation lies in it—whether you wear a cross from your chest to your navel or a small wooden one. And that’s our choice. And it’s not an easy choice. Look at a rabid dog; when it sees there’s no way out, it starts tearing everything apart. The same goes for our situation. It will continue to tear, and the attacks will go on. How many attacks are there on our church, how many on the Orthodox? They celebrate Halloween and Orthodox holidays. Halloween suits them, but our holidays—they dismiss, saying, ‘Religious fanatics, uneducated people.’ They show starving people but don’t show people who have used drugs or those girls involved in various things at their holidays. Nothing is said about this. Everything there is ‘good.'" "In Russia, there’s already an initiative to cancel Halloween. After all, symbols stand for something, as you yourself say, and it’s worth paying attention to symbolism. And I didn’t know much about Elon Musk. I don’t follow these leaders so closely, but they indeed shape opinions and influence young minds. With a certain level of social success, they, of course, know how to dictate and convey meanings." "And for young people, this is attractive because it’s something new. They don’t yet see the emptiness and don’t think about what comes after. For example, a spiritual person understands that he must become better every day, reach, because we’re travelers here. Let’s look at it as a film. We came here, grow strong in spirit, our wings develop, and we must return home, to become officers. We came as students, went through officer school, and now our wings should grow so we can fly. But if we have no wings, and instead of finding the way, engage in empty things that hold us back, we ourselves have made weights here. We’ll never fly farther. Think about it: when you’ve wronged someone, how hard it is to say ‘forgive me.’ But as soon as you say it, you feel light. Just one word, and you understand how much weight it carries. As Old Believers, we always say, ‘Forgive me for Christ’s sake.’ Not for me, but for Christ’s sake, forgive me—I am human; I make mistakes. This is what the devil doesn’t want. And he thinks that if he has millions, billions of souls, the Lord will have mercy on him because He is so merciful. And, of course, He’ll forgive him if He forgives everyone else. The youth must look and ask themselves, ‘What will happen afterward? What is my goal?’ If you refuse religion, you refuse your own nature—where are you going, and what are you choosing?" "Now everything is fast, new technologies are advancing, and it’s hard for young people to plan far ahead, difficult to create strategies. And only some kind of miracle can help them see and awaken." "And why is it necessary to make strategies? Here’s an example: when you attend a concert, you post a photo, don’t you? Why wouldn’t our young people do the same, like this: 'I’m attending such and such a spiritual conference,' and a photo—‘I visited some temple, met a priest.’ We post photos with everyone, but rarely with priests: youth with a priest, or children with a priest. We never talk about the things that spiritual people do." "I’ve noticed this trend too. Negativity attracts more attention. How can we change our world so that good and positive things are also in demand in the media?" "Advertise them. It’s simple. Talk about them and be open, like you." "Talk about them, be open, and always smile. And always be proud of who you are. I shouldn’t be offended if someone says, ‘Oh, you’re going to church, come with us to the club.’ I’d say, ‘Now, let’s go with me; let’s go to the church. You can come along, just as I do.’ Of course, our services are long, so maybe not an hour, but 10 minutes. You see a church—pass by, cross yourself, look at the icon, and everything will be fine with you. We shouldn’t be ashamed. With us, the youth can change the future. It depends on our generation. If we teach our children that going to church is nothing to be ashamed of, even more so, the priest may give a candy, or perhaps even scold them. The priest should also scold sometimes, like parents; he is a spiritual father. But the most important thing in church is that here is our Creator Father. We will find Him there. Of course, we will find Him at home, but also there. Many people say that priests drive Mercedes, but why is it forbidden for a priest to drive a Mercedes, while it’s not forbidden for an oligarch or a follower of the new church? Maybe the priest was given the car, or maybe he bought it himself, because he has to provide for his family too." "It’s difficult for those who haven’t encountered it to relate the material and the spiritual. External appearances can be deceiving, and we mustn’t forget that the devil can take any form. In Russia, elders and Holy Russia have always had a connection to the center, to God, to the spiritual, which helped endure difficult situations, like those we live in now. Finally, could you share what initiatives you would suggest for compatriots here today?" "You know, as I’ve always said, we don’t come to ask for something; we come to be partners. To show that we don’t want to take anything from Russia but rather wish to participate in her development, to be part of Russia’s future. To use our experience abroad, to consult and explain how things are done in Romania. Diplomats aren’t going to run around among societies—they interact with the elite, with a very narrow circle. But we are there, and we can help. And moreover, we can act like bees, taking the good and helping Russia develop. I’m very surprised, even in the technology field, that Russia doesn’t produce its own chips. Excuse me, we have plenty of resources needed for this. Yet, we still can’t produce fibers. This means we’re not paying enough attention to the people who can do it. We are ready to participate in all areas of development. There are many suggestions, but I think the most important thing is that we want to be part of this process for development. We want nothing else. For example, as a businessman, it’s very difficult for me. I find it easier to buy something from Russia via Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan because, as a Russian, I am overlooked in Russia. We submit applications, and our companies suffer, even for gas, for instance. We submitted one application, and we barely managed to enter the energy market. For many other issues, we still haven’t received any responses." "The human factor, yes. Perhaps something needs to change here, and Russia is changing." "The most important thing is that someone listens to us. We want to be part of Russia’s beautiful future. We have representatives in government bodies in Romania—why shouldn’t we have representatives in Russia’s government bodies? A pass, a visa. I would be here with initiatives, with investors, but I constantly have to pay for everything. When it’s a cultural event, like this one, we don’t pay for the visa; Russia supports us in this regard. But we should come more often. Something needs to be devised for compatriots recognized by the Coordinating Council of Russian Compatriots (KSORS) or other organizations: conditions for entry, access to business, the economic market, so that we can be participants. Even in the current international situation, we are ready to continue our work. Our compatriots, despite the difficult situation and strict sanctions, do not reject partnership with Russia. We should rely on these people and know that we are always near."